Seeking God When You’re in the Valley

Ellen Krause:
Welcome back to the Coffee and Bible Time podcast. I’m Ellen, your host, and today we’re diving into a conversation that speaks deeply to the ache of grief, the beauty of surrender, and the hope we find in Jesus even in the darkest places. I’m joined by my guest, Amber Smith, a woman whose life has been profoundly shaped by tragedy, but even more so by the redemptive grace of God.

Ellen Krause:
Amber is a Christ-follower, wife, mom of four, speaker, podcaster, and founder of the River Kelly Fund, a ministry that was born from the loss of her three-year-old son, River, in 2019. Since that heartbreaking day, Amber and her family have walked through the valley of suffering with raw honesty and a deep desire to point people to Jesus. Her story offers us a beautiful and bold invitation to find purpose in our pain, lay down what we cannot control, and walk closely with God even when the way is unclear.

So whether you’re walking through grief, wrestling with the unknown, or learning how to faithfully endure suffering, this conversation is for you. Grab your coffee, open your Bible, and let’s dive in.

Ellen Krause:
Amber, welcome to the Coffee and Bible Time podcast. We’re truly honored to have you with us today.

Amber:
Thank you. Thank you so much. That was such a sweet introduction.

Ellen Krause:
Amber, for listeners who don’t know you yet, how would you introduce yourself?

Amber:
I would say that I am currently— I mean, I didn’t always, I wasn’t always a Christ follower—but I am living for the Lord. I have been married to my husband going on 16 years. We have four incredible, beautiful children together. They range from 14—I have a teenager—down to four, and we live on a little farm in central Texas.

The Lord radically changed our lives in a mighty way in 2019, and since then we have just surrendered everything to Him and live faithfully, serve at our local church, and just try to do what He asks us to do. So that’s where I would say that I am currently right now.

Ellen Krause:
Oh, very good. You share your story in this powerful memoir titled The Girl on the Bathroom Floor, where you are just so incredibly vulnerable with grief in a way that we don’t often see. And this book opens on the bathroom floor in this raw and painful moment. Why was it important for you to begin there?

Amber:
You know, I have to give my husband credit for the title The Girl on the Bathroom Floor. When we were kind of wrestling through titles, he said, “You need something real and raw.” He said, “You were the girl on the bathroom floor.” And it kind of just rolled off his tongue. I said, “That’s it. That’s the perfect title,” because I was there so many times.

I felt like I needed to start there because I think for many people reading the book, that might be where they are right now—in the depths of the first few days or weeks or months of their grief—and I wanted to meet them right where they were. So I start the book with my miscarriage there on the bathroom floor.

Ellen Krause:
And I know it’s a place I’ve been as well. It’s interesting how we gravitate to the bathroom floor out of all the places. You said that you wrote this book for anyone who’s been there. What is the first thing that you want that person, who’s in the thick of grief or hopelessness, to hear?

Amber:
Yeah. Gosh, there are a few things, but I want them to know that they’re not alone. I think so often when we’re in our grief, we can feel like we’re the only one suffering like this and that nobody understands what we’re going through.

And for the most part, most people don’t understand, but I wanted them to feel seen. I wanted them to know that I was right there with them—there on the bathroom floor—that I had been there. But ultimately, I want them to know that there is hope and there is light, and that bathroom floor moment is not the end of their story. There is light to be found. There is joy to be found again, even if they don’t feel it right there in that moment.

So I just wanted to meet them there first of all and acknowledge their pain.

Ellen Krause:
Yes, and I think that’s an incredible space to start because it’s a place where so many of us can resonate and have such an emotional connection to. As you look back on that time, were there any moments when you just knew that God was carrying you through?

Amber:
Yeah, you know, it started early on. Our faith journey has grown so much over the last six years, but we felt Him with us in the hospital. We felt a peace that we couldn’t explain. We couldn’t understand it. He was guiding our hearts. He was helping us make hard decisions.

He was showing up in the way that the doctors and nurses cared for us, and in the peace that we had when there should have been no peace in those days in the hospital. And our friends and family caring for us.

There were moments—even after we left the hospital without River—when I couldn’t stand on my own strength. He carried me for a very, very long time. He still carries me to this day. But especially in those deep moments of grief, He was carrying me when I couldn’t walk.

He gave me the strength to be the wife and mom that I knew I still needed to be, and He still does that today.

Ellen Krause:
Yeah, He sure does. You wrote this very beautiful sentence where you said:

“If I were to ask each person reading this book, I would guess that you probably didn’t come to know Jesus in the mountaintop moments of your life. No, if you’ve experienced a deep personal relationship with Christ, it’s likely that He met you in the valley, in the depths, on the bathroom floor. God loves us far too much to leave us where we are. And sometimes that means He allows our hearts to break so He can heal them.”

Tell us a little bit more about that experience and how that has shaped the way you see God.

Amber:
Yeah. I think for some people, they might have known the Lord from a very young age, when they were a little girl, and that’s amazing. That’s a wonderful testimony.

But for most people, like you said, we don’t cry out to God in our mountaintop moments. We cry out to God when we come to the end of ourselves, when something terrible or tragic happens.

I just firmly believe that God loves us so much. He created each of us in our mother’s womb, and He knows what we need to be brought into relationship with Him. For some people, that is through a dark season, through a dark time, through a loss of some kind.

He loves us so much that He doesn’t want to leave us as we are. He doesn’t want to leave us in this comfortable place in this life, because this is not our only home. He cares more about our eternity with Him—our address in heaven—than He cares about our comfort here.

Oftentimes, we don’t know how much we need the Lord until we’re brought to the end of ourselves. The Bible even says He tears us so that He can heal us. He binds us up. And it’s not because He’s cruel or mean—it’s because He loves you. He knows what you need to be brought into His arms.

In our story, that’s what we needed. We were living very cultural Christian lives before our loss, and the Lord used the death of our son to bring us to saving faith in Him, to light a fire in us for the gospel, for sharing the good news with other people, and for walking with others through suffering.

That wouldn’t have happened without the painful loss of our son. And I just see Him now as the sovereign Lord who uses everything—good, bad, everything—for His glory and for our good.

Ellen Krause:
Right?

Ellen Krause:
Right. And Amber, just as a side note to that, how has God used your story? Are people reaching out to you when they have a circumstance they feel like you can relate to, or how has that been?

Amber:
Yeah. Sadly, walking through this—and because our family is a little bit in the public eye with my husband having done music and us being online a lot—we have met with so many families who have gone through tragic seasons, the loss of a son or daughter, loss of any kind.

We don’t want to be part of that group, and I wish that they didn’t have to come to us, but the Lord has used our story in some small way to show them that there is light, that they can do this, and that God is still good even in the valley.

Other people’s stories were that light for us. I craved stories of other mothers and fathers who had gone through difficult seasons and were still standing—not only still standing, but praising God through it. Those people were that light for me.

The Lord continually uses people’s stories. He’s weaving together this beautiful masterpiece of His people. I just love that God has used us in some small way to bring hope to other people.

Ellen Krause:
And I’m so sure that He has. We actually have a couple in our small group who are very dear friends of ours, and they lost their son when he was high-school-aged, I believe. Seeing them come through that has been such an encouragement—the stories they tell about the people who reach out to them, especially non-believers. They just know that it has to be something that’s getting them through, and they ask, “What is it?”

Amber:
Yeah, yeah. He comforts us, and then we in turn are able to comfort others.

Ellen Krause:
Absolutely. Well, Amber, you wrote that you had made River an idol in your life, meaning that you realized you were holding your son higher than God. That’s such a powerful admission. How did you come to that realization, and how did God walk you through that?

Amber:
Yeah. I was just so extremely sad, as anyone—any mother—would be. I so longed to be with River. I longed for our life to go back to the way it was.

I was grieving so hard that I was on the bathroom floor, and in that moment I felt—what I now know was the power of the Holy Spirit—strong and firm words that were loving. It was as if the Lord was lifting up my chin, and He said, “Enough. Seek Me.”

I realized that yes, I’m allowed to be sad. Yes, I’m allowed to lament. But in that moment, I realized everyone is grieving something. Stop seeking the gift that I gave you and start seeking Me. Start seeking the Giver.

That was my turning point—when He called me to arise off the bathroom floor and begin to seek the God of the Bible, whom I didn’t know. I had heard of Jesus, and I knew that He died for our sins, but I didn’t know the God of Scripture.

That’s when I began studying the pages of Scripture and reading my Bible for the first time at 38 years old. I began to see who He truly is—not who the world says He is, but who He reveals Himself to be in Scripture. And when you find that God, it is so freeing. It humbles you and opens your eyes to behold Him the way we should be beholding Him.

Ellen Krause:
Mm-hmm. And thank you for sharing how that became an idol for you. I think the people part of idols is something we don’t think about very often. I actually experienced that a little bit too, before I became a strong believer. I really idolized my dad before he passed away.

Amber:
Yeah.

Ellen Krause:
I would always go to my dad first. I was never seeking a relationship with God or how He was leading and directing my life. It was always my dad—thinking about my dad. And then when he passed away, everything changed, kind of like how you described.

I think my heart was understanding that yes, we loved each other, and yes, there was purpose in that. But knowing that it was God whom I could go to—whether my dad was here or not—was so incredibly freeing. It took pressure off, knowing my God is here, He can do anything, and He’s with me…

Amber:
Yeah.

Ellen Krause:
…through such a deep circumstance.

Amber:
Yeah. I think we can make anything our idol. But like you said, a lot of times we don’t think about the people in our lives—our dads, our sons or daughters, our husbands.

We can make our jobs our idols, our health—anything that takes the place of God and gives us hope, joy, peace, and freedom. If those things are taken away from us, what are we left with if they’ve become the idols in our lives?

The Lord really revealed a lot to me about idols and how we put things in front of Him.

Ellen Krause:
Mm-hmm. You wrote that suffering is sadly unavoidable, but misery is optional, and that grief and joy can coexist—they’re not opposites. How did you begin to actually believe that and even live it?

Amber:
Mm-hmm. Yeah, you know, the Lord gave us the gift of lament. He gave us tears. He gave us a way to cry and lament and grieve. But I think when grief or sadness or something becomes our identity, that is another idol that can happen, and that’s when it becomes a problem.

Yes, life hurts. Everyone in this world will go through some type of suffering because of the fall. We have sin and sickness and death and everything because of the fall. But if we sit in it, that’s when we become miserable and bitter and angry. And that’s where the enemy wants us—in that place of anger, bitterness, confusion, and doubting the goodness of God.

So yes, suffering and sadness—we should grieve, we should mourn, we should lament—but we shouldn’t stay there. That’s when we become miserable, and there’s no goodness in that. That just eats away at your bones.

Grief and joy coexisting for me was realizing that after River, I still had two other children. I still had a husband. I told my son last night—we were actually walking back from feeding our dogs—and he was making me laugh. I said, “You know what, buddy?” He was one—obviously they all were—but that was one thing he could do in my grief: make me laugh.

I realized after I lost River that I still had joy inside of me, and it was okay to laugh even though I was still grieving. My son is funny. He makes me laugh. So I can have grief and joy at the same time.

Then we had our son Maverick, who’s in the other room right now. I was rocking him and nursing him, and I was so happy and so joyful in that moment that God allowed me to be a mom again. But I was still so sad over the loss of my son River.

I realized I don’t have to pick one or the other. They can run parallel until we get to heaven, and I can hold both at the same time. I can hold heartache in one hand and hope in the other, and that’s okay. I don’t have to beat myself up over feeling one or the other.

Ellen Krause:
Yes, that’s so, so important because I think that’s exactly what we tend to do—be hard on ourselves about why we’re struggling to overcome grief maybe faster than what’s really necessary. And yet they can coexist. Praise God for that.

Amber:
Yeah.

Ellen Krause:
Well, for someone who’s listening, Amber, who’s in the darkest part of their own story—maybe they’re not even sure they believe in God—what would you say to them? Not as an author, but as someone who’s been there.

Amber:
Yeah. I start the book with a letter to them on the bathroom floor. I would first say, “I hate that you’re going through this, and I know how much it hurts, and I’m so sorry.” I would just sit there and acknowledge their pain with them, because this life is really hard.

We don’t have to rush past healing, and really hard things can’t be fixed. Nothing I say will make it better. But I will say, if you don’t know—if you’re questioning God, if you don’t even know if He exists—I would just say, “Come and see.”

Come and see. Just lament. Cry out to Him. Tell Him that. Say, “God, I don’t even know if You exist. I don’t even know if I believe in You. I’m so angry right now, but I want to know You. If You are real, I want to know You.”

My husband Granger always says, “God has never turned away a repentant, seeking sinner yet, and He’s not going to start with you.” So I would say, come and see.

The Bible says, “Seek Me and you will find Me if you seek Me with all your heart.” Pray to Him. Cry out to the God who created you. Then open up your Bible, because He is speaking every day in His Word.

That’s where my transformation came—when I began to know who He was. When you know who God is, everything else in your life changes. Your perspective changes. How you view the world changes. How you view sin changes. How you view suffering changes.

It truly transformed my life, coming to know the God of the Bible. So I would just say, come and see. He’s not hiding from you. He wants to reveal Himself to you, and He loves you so much. You will find hope and joy and light again. I promise—if you turn your eyes and seek the Lord.

Ellen Krause:
Well, you’ve been in a very unique place of experiencing both public tragedy and personal transformation. What do you wish people understood about grief that’s often overlooked? And how can we help someone who’s experiencing grief?

Amber:
I think so often we think there are stages—we go through these stages, and then we’ll be okay. That’s just not what grief was like for me, and I think for many people. It’s not linear. You don’t go through stage one, stage two—it’s a mess. It’s hard, and it’s work.

You might go a year without crying, and then something will trigger you and make you sad again. That doesn’t mean you’re all the way back to day one. You can get through that.

So I think giving yourself grace through your grief and allowing all of those emotions to come is important. It’s never “moving on,” it’s moving forward—carrying whatever you’re learning to carry, whatever hole you have in your heart that only the Lord can fill.

It’s not pretty. It’s messy. But there is hope through it.

As far as helping others, in the beginning of my loss, I didn’t want to hear Christian phrases like “God needed another angel” or “God gives His hardest battles to His toughest soldiers.” We don’t want to hear that. We just want to be met where we are and have the pain acknowledged.

We don’t have to rush through it. It can take time. I cried not long ago. I still miss my son. I miss him all the time. But now I grieve with hope.

Ellen Krause:
Yeah.

Amber:
I would also say, if you have a friend who’s lost someone, don’t ask them what they need—because they don’t know. Just show up. Say, “I’m bringing dinner. I’m dropping it off. You don’t have to say anything. You don’t have to respond to my text, but I’m praying for you and I love you.”

We don’t know what we want when we’re grieving. If someone asks, “What do you need?” the honest answer is, “I need my son back.” So just show up. Take the initiative.

Ellen Krause:
Yeah.

Ellen Krause:
Absolutely. And actually, that takes the pressure off the person. You really don’t know what to say. Just being there—being a listening ear.

Amber:
Yeah. I think even saying that—“I don’t know what to say right now. I don’t have words, but I’m so sorry, and I’ll be here with you through it.”

Ellen Krause:
Yeah.

Ellen Krause:
That’s such a great comfort. Were there any particular scriptures, books of the Bible, or devotionals that spoke to you?

Amber:
Yeah. I used to call myself a devotional junkie. Right after I lost my son, I had ten or twelve devotionals because I just needed something to give me hope and encouragement. Those are good things—but you really have to get the whole story.

I would encourage anyone to read the Bible in a year, two years—however long it takes you. Ten years. Just read it.

A verse I held onto was Proverbs 3:5: “Trust in the Lord with all your heart and do not lean on your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge Him, and He will make your path straight.” We are not the Lord. If I rely on my own understanding—what I see and feel—I’m going to fail. But trusting Him, even when it doesn’t make sense, brings freedom.

Another one was Romans 12:12: “Be joyful in hope, patient in affliction, faithful in prayer.” That really helped me navigate my dark days.

Ellen Krause:
I can see how that definitely would. You write so vulnerably about sorrow, grief, and loss in The Girl on the Bathroom Floor. When I was reading it, I had my Kleenexes next to me. I couldn’t put it down because it’s so deeply felt, but you also walk people through acknowledging who God is and how He worked in your life.

How are you doing now, and what have you been learning through this process?

Amber:
Man, writing a book is difficult—especially telling the most raw and vulnerable parts of your story. But I learned so much about myself and so much about the Lord. He truly is my good shepherd through the valley.

While writing, I got emotional in different places than I expected. Some parts were harder to write, others easier. I finally realized I had to beg the Lord and say, “You’re going to have to do this for me. I can’t write 60,000 words on my own. You’ll have to give me the words.”

And He did. He gave me the strength and the words to write the vulnerable parts of our story. I could have said so much more, but whatever the Lord wanted to be said is what’s in the book.

He taught me that He is always with me. Psalm 23 became so real—He leads us on paths of righteousness for His name’s sake, but He also leads us through the valley of the shadow of death. He goes before us, beside us, and pursues us with goodness and mercy.

I’m in a really good place now. Six years later, the Lord has healed so much of my heart. But He’s also taught me that I need Him just as much today—on a good day—as I did on the bathroom floor. I need Him to be a good wife, mom, friend, and church member.

I was thanking Him today on the way to school, saying, “Lord, thank You that You’re with us.” We need Him every moment—not just in our bathroom floor moments.

I don’t want more pain in my life, but I miss the intimacy of that dark season, because He was so close. He truly was my good shepherd in the valley.

Ellen Krause:
Yes, and we hear that so often—that God meets us in those incredibly difficult circumstances.

Ellen Krause:
Amber, as we start to wrap things up, I didn’t want you to retell your entire story, because you’ve done that so beautifully in your book. But I want our audience to know it’s a gripping, heart-wrenching story that proves irrevocably that God is above all things. I highly recommend getting it. You won’t be able to put it down.

What’s your hope for the person reading it?

Amber:
Thank you. I’ve seen the goodness of God in a world of pain, and I just want people to know Him—truly know Him. I don’t want people to stay stuck in their pain and grief or think they’ll never find joy again.

There is joy in Him. He is good. I want people to know the God of the Bible. I don’t want people to just say they believe in Jesus—I want them to believe Jesus. To believe He is who He says He is, that He is good, that He saves sinners. He saved a wretch like me.

He will walk you through whatever pain you’re in. This world is not our home. We have eternity with Him and with our loved ones ahead of us.

Yes, the book is about grief, but it’s not only about child loss—it’s about pain. About life not going the way you thought it would. I want to comfort people in their grief, but ultimately I want them to walk away saying, “I want to know that God. I want to know who Jesus is.”

Ellen Krause:
Well, thank you so much, Amber. Tell everyone how they can learn more about you. Where can they find you?

Amber:
Thank you. I’m most active on Instagram—that’s my main way of connecting with people. It’s @AmberEmilySmith. I also have a website, arisewithamber.com, and we have our family YouTube channel, which is The Smiths TV.

Ellen Krause:
Very good. Well, we will make sure we include links to those in the show notes. Before I let you go, Amber, I want to ask you our three questions that we always ask all of our guests.

We’re curious to know—what Bible is your go-to Bible, and what translation is it?

Amber:
So when I started reading the Scriptures, I decided I was going to read a different translation every year. Currently, I’m reading the LSB. I think my favorite Bible—I’ve done two or three of these—is the John MacArthur Study Bible.

I do different translations. I’ve done the ESV, I’ve done the New King James, and currently I’m on the LSB. I just love the commentary in his Bible. That’s the kind of Bible I’ve done every year, just in different translations.

My first Bible was the Christian Standard. That’s the very first one I ever read through, and I think that’s a good one to start with—very easily readable. But the translation I usually go to when I’m speaking is the ESV.

Ellen Krause:
Okay. Very good. Awesome. Do you have any favorite Bible journaling supplies that you like to use?

Amber:
My favorite are the journal gel highlighters. I love those. I have a friend—her name is Kristen, and I believe her Instagram is shelovesbible. She has the most beautiful journaling stuff, and she does a partnership with Mr. Pen, and he always has all these really cool journaling tools.

But typically, my Bible journaling is just a really good gel pen and a gel highlighter.

Ellen Krause:
Awesome. Okay, they work. What is your favorite app or website for Bible study tools?

Amber:
So my husband just turned me on to this. It’s called Olive Tree—Olive Tree Bible. You can do the free version, or you can do the paid version where you get all kinds of different commentaries.

The way it’s set up is so easy. If you want to click on one word, you can see what it means in the Greek. I have it downloaded on my phone if I ever want to compare translations or things like that. I also get free commentaries from some of my favorite pastors and theologians. So I love the Olive Tree app.

Ellen Krause:
Ooh, okay—hey, that’s a great one. I haven’t heard of that one before, and wow, we’ve done a lot of shows. So that’s cool. I love learning something new.

Okay, awesome. Well, Amber, thank you so much for sharing your heart, your story, and your unwavering faith that has gotten you through it. Your vulnerability just points us back to the truth that even in our deepest pain, God is still present. He’s still good.

Amber:
Yeah. Okay, good.

Ellen Krause:
And He is still working. So thank you.

Amber:
Thank you so much.

Ellen Krause:
And to our listeners, if today’s conversation stirred something in your heart, I want to encourage you to sit with that. Maybe it’s time to ask yourself, where does your hope truly come from? Maybe God is inviting you to surrender something you’ve been holding onto too tightly—maybe some kind of idol.

Wherever you are, know that you are not alone and that Jesus is near. We pray that this episode reminds you of God’s unchanging love and challenges you to walk more closely with Him.

Until next time, we’ll see you again on the Coffee and Bible Time podcast. Have a blessed day.