Waiting on God: Why Trusting His Plan Changes Everything

Ellen Krause 0:04

The Coffee of Bible Time podcast, our goal is to help you delight in God’s Word and thrive in Christian living. Each week, we talk to subject matter experts who broaden your biblical understanding, encourage you in hard times, and provide life-building tips to enhance your Christian walk. We are so glad you have joined us. Hi, friends, and welcome back to the Coffee and Bible Time podcast. I’m Ellen, your host, and I’m so excited you’re here for today’s conversation. My guest today is Jamie Jamgoshin, a Dove Award-nominated singer, songwriter, worship leader, and someone whose walk with the Lord has been shaped by long seasons of waiting, unexpected detours, and deep surrender. Over the past two decades, Jamie has experienced the highs and lows of life and ministry. But what is so powerful about her story is that she hasn’t waited to live until the waiting is over. Instead, she’s discovered what it means to live fully and abundantly, even when the answers haven’t come yet. So whether you’re in a season of uncertainty, holding out hope for something yet to come, or learning to let go of what you can’t control, I believe Jamie’s words will speak directly to your heart. So grab your coffee, open your Bible, and let’s dive in. Jamie, welcome.Jaime Jamgochian 1:41

Thank you. I brought my coffee. I don’t know where it is, but it’s somewhere.Ellen Krause 1:46

Well, no worries. I’m just glad that you’re here. Thank you. Why don’t you start out just by telling our listeners a little bit about you and your ministry?Jaime Jamgochian 1:57

Yeah. So I have been singing, leading worship, Christian songs since I was 24. I came to faith at 21 while studying jazz piano at Berkeley. I was singing in the bars, the cruise lines, my funny valentine, all of that. And God got a hold of my life through a classmate, and she was the first one to share the gospel and tell me who Jesus is. And my heart was ready, and I think she could see that. And I surrendered everything. That was my first true test of surrender, which I know we’re going to talk about, Ellen, in a little bit. But that led me from the East Coast to Seattle, Washington, where I laid down every musical dream. I was set to go to LA, New York. Had really excelled in my professional career. But the Lord said, go to Seattle and take a two-year Bible internship at a church. I had never seen hands raised in worship. I had never experienced the power of corporate worship in my life, was ruined and wrecked for the glory of God in the best way. And that began a journey. And ever since then, I did end up signing a Christian record deal that led me here to Nashville. So I’ve been in ministry the last 25 years. I counted an honor to lead people into worship, to share hope, to share what it’s like to go from darkness to light, as we all know. I reside in the southern part of Tennessee, right outside of Nashville. I love my community here. I have some dear friends that we’re all kind of in the ministry Christian music world. So I love my community, have a beautiful family still back east in Boston. And after putting out seven albums, God was being funny, I guess, and decided to say, You’re gonna be an author. I said, I’m the girl that had the learning disabilities. Lord, I’m a singer. And so I have my first book coming out October 7th, and truly cling to that verse. God will use the foolish things of the world to confound the wise, because I don’t think I should have written a book. But here we are, and I believe it’s gonna really unlock and bring some breakthrough to people that um have navigated just long seasons of waiting or suffering, um, or how to live an abundant, full life, even in some empty places. So that’s a little bit about me. I’m a earthy, crunchy, organic, holistic girl. So you can find me at all the holistic uh little crunchy markets, um, living my best life, drinking my golden milk lattes.Ellen Krause 4:28

Oh thank you for that awesome introduction, Jamie. I know um because I have read your beautifully written book that you have had some challenges and setbacks. Tell us about, you know, a moment in your spiritual life where you felt called to fully surrender and trust.

Calling, Community, and Becoming an Author

Jaime Jamgochian 4:53

Oh my goodness, I feel like it’s a daily thing, right, Alan? Like every day, Lord, I surrender this, or I give you this desire, I give you this dream. I think one of the hardest parts of my story of surrender would be in 2019 when on the outside everything looked great. I was thriving in ministry. I had actually helped some dear friends and pastors of mine plant a church in Nashville called The Belonging, you know, part of the core small team where we’re just seeing it bloom and bloom. I was on staff there as the new Christians pastor, and I just didn’t feel well. I can remember I was still taking ministry trips, singing, leading worship on the road, and I would get home and just something wasn’t quite right. Well, fast forward, I was uh finally diagnosed with late-stage neurological Lyme disease, which I don’t ever remember getting bit by a tick. I I’m not an like go live in the forest kind of girl. I’m more of like, let’s go to a nice hotel. So I’m like, how did I get a ticky bite? I don’t even hike, you know? What’s funny is now I do, but uh long story. Um that led me into a season of true surrender, truly saying, God, this doesn’t make sense. I had to sell my condo, move back home, have my parents care for me. Had to really lay down if I’d ever be well again, because there’s a lot of doctors that believe Lyme is incurable and that you’ll always have these tough chronic symptoms. Something in my spirit did not resonate with that. Maybe because I’m a late convert and I take every word of that Bible to be true. And I kept saying, but the Lord says that by his stripes I can be healed. And the Lord says who the sun sets free is free indeed. So, God, I believe you can free me from this affliction, from this infirmity, from this sickness. And um, we found a clinic in New York that I actually now work for very part-time remotely, and they do advanced Lyme cases, and I was able to get on the other side, but the Lord invited me in that season after, gosh, 20 years of travel and just living the life and ministry. He invited me into this holy season of suffering, of surrender, where I really got to see him in a new way and trust him. And I think that’s probably one of the most profound areas of surrender where I had to give everything up. If I could never talk right again, if I could never walk right again. I mean, I’m talking, it was hard to get my head off the pillow, but I found this sweet spot of joy and surrender that he’s enough. And if nothing else ever happened, the cross of Jesus is enough. I’m saved, I know where I’m going. If I never sing another note, play the piano again, which is my favorite thing to do, God, you’re enough. And that was a great test of surrender.

The Surrender of Illness: Lyme Diagnosis

Ellen Krause 7:46

Jamie, I can completely relate to your story in that I experienced something similar with an autoimmune disease that literally left me on my bed to the point of not able to get out of bed myself. I mean, it is a very humbling experience and one that God used in my life as well. So I just I I applaud you for what you were able to pull out and learn from that experience and grow in that experience. It’s a it’s important to acknowledge that there are challenges we face that are not God’s will. They are consequences of living in a fallen world. So what does patience and surrender look like for someone who’s in the midst of that situation? Maybe someone who’s right there today listening.Jaime Jamgochian 8:44

Yeah, well, patience is never hard, right? And you know that. I didn’t know that part of your story when you’re waiting and waiting for breakthrough, and it just feels like groundhog day. Every day, the same thing, every day the same thing. Um, but patience is a fruit of the spirit, and just like joy and just like peace and just like love, we are instructed to walk in patience. I fail daily in this area. Um, we’re a microwave generation, we want it now, we want it quick. Um, but I do think that learning patience, um, you you kind of settle down a little bit. You don’t freak out about things as much. Even last night at a Bible study I was teaching, we talked about what position are we in? Are we in a position of rest? God, I trust you in the circumstance that’s not changing that I don’t understand. Are we seated in Him and we know our identity as a daughter of God? So we can be patient, we can say, God, I don’t get it, but I trust you. Um or, and I’m I’m not saying I’ve always done this perfect, we try to run ahead, right? We try to make it happen. We manipulate a situation to have it happen sooner than it’s supposed to. And something the Lord’s taught me is his timing is best. There’s a chapter in my new book called When Your Plan A was God’s plan B, and how he really makes it the best plan because we think we know what we want, but he’s up there saying, Oh, my daughters, oh my sons, if only you could see what I have for you. It’s so much better. The timing might be different, the scenario might be different, but I’m a good dad and I’m not gonna fail you. So I think walking and patience, although hard, it takes grip, it takes daily discipline, takes character, it takes integrity. I I mean, I’m telling you, I fail some days, but it’s asking the Lord for that fruit of the spirit. Be careful if you pray for patience because he will test you.Ellen Krause 10:44

Yes, absolutely. Faith and trust as we wait. You make a note that there is a difference between waiting well and not waiting well. How would you describe those two different scenarios?

Patience, Timing, and Waiting Well

Jaime Jamgochian 10:58

Yeah, so the tagline of the book, uh Sacred Surrender, the practice of waiting well. I remember when we we dreamed that up and I thought, oh, I don’t know if I wait well, Lord. Um but then I realized in the last 20 plus years, there’s been some significant areas in my life that I’ve had to lay down to the Lord and say, I’m gonna wait for your best in this area. And I’ve seen him, I have seen his faithfulness time and time again when I take my hands off. And waiting well, I think is the posture of the heart. It’s saying, God, not my will, your will be done, which is back to that posture of living a sacred, surrendered life. So I have tools, I have things I’ve learned along the way that have helped me to wait well. Some of those is I’ll do a test. Uh, I’ll ask myself every day, am I jumping ahead? Am I lagging behind? Lord, am I right on time? It’s a prayer I’ll pray, it’s something I’ll journal, I’ll see what the Holy Spirit says. Um, I can tell when I’m not waiting well. Something I need to do is take a step back and take care of myself. Um, not into like the whole self-love movement. I think that’s very anti-Jesus. But I do think God wants us to take care of ourselves and love ourselves enough to be able to love others, right? So I’ll I’ll recognize oh, I’m not waiting well. I need to go on some of my sunset walks. I need to reconnect with some of my dear friends and have some beautiful dinners that bring life to me and fuel, fill yourself up, take care of you so that you are able to wait upon the Lord. If not, you know, Ellen, we get in our flesh and we try to figure things out and do things on our own. And well, we know that doesn’t benefit us very much. Those are a few things that I do. I ask trusted people in my life, how do you think I’m doing in this area? You know this is hard. You know, I’ve been waiting for a long time. Give me some insight and I listen to what they have to say and get their feedback. So those are some of my tips of how to wait well.Ellen Krause 13:06

Thank you so much for that. You know, all of those things sort of add up, right? When you they build upon one another and get you to this place of being able to wait in peace and trust. There’s an interesting quote I want to read from your book. You say there is a pruning that happens when we are walking through a difficult situation, which causes the dead and dying things in our life to fall to the ground and be stripped away. If you are being humbled in a particular area, do not resist it, but rather lean in even further into the ways that God is shaping you through that challenging time. What are some ways that we can notice where God might be pruning us? And what does it look like to actually lean into those seasons? Sounds painful.Jaime Jamgochian 14:03

Yeah. Um, I remember when I became a Christian, I had the revelation that it’s no longer I that live, but Christ that lives within me. We die to ourselves to live unto Christ, right? That’s the whole Christian faith. It’s no longer me, Jamie’s no longer Ellen. It’s Christ within us. So how do we reflect him the best we can this side of heaven until we are in glory, until we are changed in an instant, right? Oh, I long for that today. I think some of the ways that the pruning happens is when he’s trying to highlight an area in our life that maybe he does want to make a little bit more like him. Maybe it’s a little rougher on the edges, maybe we’re pushing back in some way. And usually that comes through testing, through trials. That’s where we are pruned. We’re not pruned when everything’s great and we’re on the mountaintop and every prayer is coming true. We’re pruned when we’re down in the valley with him, saying, God, I need you for my next breath. I need you for my next decision. We’re pruned when we humbly come before him and say, I can’t do this, but you can do this. So I think pruning is actually a beautiful thing, and we don’t talk about that a lot. Like hidden seasons in Christ are some of the most holy, because that’s when God is really fortifying who we are. So if you’re being pruned right now, I would see that as a loving heavenly father saying, daughter, I’ve got more for you. Oh, if you could just see what’s ahead. So embrace the pruning, embrace when there’s correction, embrace when he says, you know what, you didn’t quite get that right. I still love you, of course, but let’s work on it for the next time. So I always feel like a pruning season comes before typically a next thing God’s gonna do in your life. Like for me, I had to be pruned as a young believer in my early 20s and learn a lot of stuff. And then I got the Christian record deal. I couldn’t have done that had I not walked through some of those prior seasons. Um, even the health season, the trial, brought me to a whole new level of pruning.

Pruning, Hidden Seasons, and Growth

Ellen Krause 16:11

Yes, it’s amazing how when after going through those things, they do equip you for what God is calling you to do next. You know, my husband is a landscape architect, so he is always making sure our trees are pruned and we have this incredibly gorgeous crab apple tree. And always when he prunes it, I’m thinking to myself, but it’s so beautiful right now. And yet when he prunes it, it’s looking a little bit more bare, but then the next year, when it actually bears fruit and has less disease, it’s just you see how that that pruning process is so prolific. And so it it it’s so cool to see how God does that actually in our lives. Well, Jamie, you uh write about the importance of words in difficult seasons. I know you’re very vulnerable in your book, telling us about some harsh words that were spoken over you when you were young. Tell us about um why those words are so important and what it actually looks like to speak truth over one another and ourselves in those seasons.Jaime Jamgochian 17:27

Yeah, our words carry power. You know, the Bible says that there’s blessing, there’s cursing, there’s life, there’s death in our words. So we really need to watch them, especially as believers. I think even when we’re uh thinking, we’re like, are we flattering someone or are we really encouraging them? God’s really checked me lately on the words that come out. And um yeah, that story that you’re referencing is one that happened in my life, gosh, so long ago. And I was seven or eight, and I learned about this later in life, probably a few years after it really happened, that I realized the power of our words. And I wasn’t great in school, I was great at the social stuff, the music stuff, all of that. Personality was great. Learning was hard, and I can remember my parents went to their teacher-parent conference, and for whatever reason, maybe the teacher was having a bad day. She just decided to speak some real negative, hurtful words, and it ended with your daughter will amount to not much because she’s not comprehending, she can’t, I couldn’t get words outright, which was true. I had to then start resource rooms and learning centers and the Sylvan Learning Center and speech therapists, and so there was truth to it, but the delivery, and I think our words carry power, and thank God for parents that were like, Oh no, you didn’t. My little girl is gonna change the world, and we weren’t saying, we weren’t believers. Um, that was our first encounter, I would say, with negative words, and you know, you can latch onto those and think, Well, I’m never gonna learn and I’m always gonna have speech problems. But actually, I flipped that script, and music helped that a lot. Uh, they even say that people that deal with learning issues, if you get your brain going musically, creatively, statistics show it really helps. And that was my case. And I ended up graduating. Kuma sum lata, top of the class, giving the valedictorian speech. Um, all of that, graduate top of the class at Berkeley. You can you can partner with a negative word, or you can come out of agreement with it. And that’s for any lie that the enemy would want to throw onto us. You can come in agreement with that lie, or you can see it, validate it, say, actually, this is not the truth of who God says I am, and I’m gonna come out of agreement with that, and I’m not gonna walk in that place. So that’s what I chose to do, and that’s how my parents chose to raise me that no, you’re a world changer. This is not gonna hold you back. Yeah, there’s some learning issues. So I’m really careful about what I speak about other people in their hard seasons and their broken seasons and their challenges, because you don’t know what God’s gonna do with that. And it’s just a reminder to us that our words really do carry power.Ellen Krause 20:21

They sure do. And labels like that um can be so detrimental. I’m sorry you had to go through that because that’s that’s so hard in a kid. I love though what you said in the book, um what you alluded to about music, but you also said art. And my my daughter Ashley was kind of similar to what you’re describing in learning. And coincidentally, she was in like an outdoor or an out-of-school art program, and she just blossomed and it did exactly what you said music did for you. It’s incredible how art and music can help the other side of your brain.

Words that Wound and Words that Heal

Jaime Jamgochian 21:04

It does. I wish I knew the statistic better, but I love hearing those stories that I tore, and I hear these stories every night on tour how you know my daughter was doing so bad, and then we got her into flute lessons, and all of a sudden, or you know, my son, and then we got him playing the drums and the marching band. And I’m like, there is there’s something about that side of the brain, the creative side that clicks on and helps the other side.Ellen Krause 21:28

Yes.Jaime Jamgochian 21:29

I need to study it up.Ellen Krause 21:31

Absolutely. One of the big themes in your book is hope. And at one point, you ask your readers to consider where their hope comes from and if it has been hijacked. So tell us what you mean by that and how can we know if it’s happened to us?

Where Is Your Hope Anchored

Jaime Jamgochian 22:37

Yeah. I once saw someone in the airport. I spent a lot of time there with a t-shirt that says got hope. And I thought that’s so cool. And then I started to think about all the places that we as believers and people that don’t know the Lord yet put their hope in. So we put our hope in our relational status. If we’re married, we put our hope in our dreams coming true. We put our hope in maybe even our health, our financial bracket, where have we reached a certain place financially? All these things we put our hope in. And I remember one day the Lord really challenged me and he said, Do you know that I’m the author of hope? And I’m like, Of course, Lord, you you know you’re and he led me to the scripture that talks about Jesus. Once we’re born again, we are entering into the resurrection power, into the living hope. So Jesus is our actual living hope, which I think makes so much sense because I think you can probably relate to this as believers. Even when something is devastating or there’s grief and you’ve lost someone so dear to your heart, we still have that living hope within us. We will grieve, we will be sad, yes, but we don’t mourn as those that don’t have that living hope within us. And so I like to challenge people where is your hope? Where are you placing your hope? Is it in the person of Jesus? Is that your identity, or is your hope in something that’s gonna happen outside of him? I I had a few big career goals, and one of them kind of happened several years ago, and I remember thinking I finally got the dub nomination, and in my genre, that’s like a big thing. It’s like the Christian Grammys, right? And um got the pretty dress, walked the red carpet, was in the category with three people that I really look up to, peers. I didn’t win, but I remembered getting home that night and thinking, wow, finally, 20 years in, I was nominated for a Dove Award. And the Lord asked me a question, do you feel any different? I said, No. He said, Do you think you would have felt any different if you won? I said, No. And it was this wake-up call to me that even though it’s not a bad thing, right? Any earthly accolade or earthly win, so to speak, it never fills that god hole. It never fills true hope or purpose. That’s only in our relationship with Christ. And it was such a good lesson for me that if nothing else ever happens in life, is my hope anchored in you and are you enough? And those are questions I ask myself. So I ask people, has your hope been hijacked? And if so, let’s go in and see where that happened. Let’s deal with that wound. Um, let’s do some inner healing, some prayer there, so that your heart can be free and you cannot live under, but you can live above that circumstance. You know, the Bible says hope deferred makes the heart sick. So let’s heal that hope deferred so you don’t have a sick heart.Ellen Krause 25:46

Yes, that’s that’s a good question that we need to be asking ourselves as a checkpoint. Well, Jamie, you included um, which I really love at the end of each chapter, some incredible reflection questions that readers can sort of chew on the content and ask themselves these same things that you’ve asked yourself in that same spirit. What is a question you would want to leave our listeners with?Jaime Jamgochian 26:14

Yeah. I think in the days and times we’re living, um, are you truly surrendered to the Lord and his purpose for your life? Because as believers, and I’m guessing um a lot of your audience probably are Christ followers, um, we need to be more fired up and surrendered than ever for what the days ahead um are gonna entail. And that takes that posture. I always just picture it open hands. I’m letting go and I’m letting God. I’m letting you do whatever you need to do in my life. So are you truly surrendered? Are you surrendering daily to the plans of God or are we just coasting? I think it’s easy to coast as a believer. We get comfortable, we get in our rhythms. Um, are we fully living out the calling and purpose God has placed in our life? Because I think it’s gonna take each one of us, whatever sphere we’re in, if we’re the most amazing mama at home raising four world changers, right? That is just as important as the person traveling in full-time ministry. So, whatever God has called you to, are we doing it with all of our hearts in a posture of surrender? Um, I think that in the days to come, that’s what we’re gonna need.Ellen Krause 27:30

Thank you for that encouragement. Um, it’s almost something you wanted, like, you know, put a put a sign of that up on your wall and sort of reground yourself periodically. Well, such encouraging words from you, Jamie. Where can people go to find out more information about you and your new book, Sacred Surrender?Jaime Jamgochian 27:54

Yeah, so the book is available wherever you like to get books. Amazon, Barnes and Noble, Mardell’s Christian Bookstore. Maybe you’re an audiobook girly like me, you can find the audiobook as well. I love to connect on social media. Uh, Instagram is probably the best place, Facebook. And my website’s Jamie Jam, J A I M E J A M.com. And uh, you can find all those spots on jamejam.com. My name’s long Jamie Jam Goshen. So good luck with that one. But just go to jamiejam.com and it’ll help you out.Ellen Krause 28:28

Oh, yay, that makes it so much easier. And we will definitely put those links in our show notes to make it easy for you to find her. Well, before we go, we have to ask you a couple of our favorite questions. What Bible is your go-to Bible, and what translation is it?

Daily Surrender and Purpose

Jaime Jamgochian 28:44

It’s the NLT, the New Living Translation. I love that one. I started on the NIV and then I transitioned to the NLT. So that’s my favorite Bible. And then, did you ask me my favorite verse? Oh, I wasn’t going to, but I’d love for you to share. My favorite verse is the first verse I learned that most people know. Proverbs 3, 4, and 5. Trust in the Lord with all your heart. Lean not on your own understanding, but acknowledge him in all your ways, and he will direct your steps. So that’s the one I cling to daily.Ellen Krause 29:20

Love that one. Okay. Do you have any favorite journaling supplies that you like to use for do you do Bible journaling?Jaime Jamgochian 29:29

I journal, but I don’t do Bible journaling. So I just have like my Bible and a separate journal, and I’ll journal my thoughts out. But no, I I know some friends that do that. I haven’t gotten into that yet.Ellen Krause 29:42

Okay, no problem. Okay, lastly, what is your favorite app or website for Bible study tools?Jaime Jamgochian 29:50

I had U version for a while, and I would listen to um some audio Bible, but then I switched to an app called Abide, and I would listen every morning to the three-minute little teaching and the breathing, and I loved it because I did like breath work with the scripture. So I like the Abide app.Ellen Krause 30:11

Okay, awesome. Okay, thank you for sharing your tips with us. Well, JB, I just appreciate you being here so much, and thank you for your vulnerability. I know that God is using your story already and will continue to do so with this book. Um, so thank you for being with us today.Jaime Jamgochian 30:32

Thanks for having me on your show.Ellen Krause 30:34

All right, and to our listeners, I hope Jamie’s words encourage you to see your current season, whatever it looks like, as a place where God is still present. Still working and still inviting you into deeper trust. We’ll see you next time here at the Coffee and Bible Time podcast. Until then, we pray that the God of Hope will fill you with all joy and peace as you trust in Him. Have a blessed day.