From Regret to Redemption: God’s Grace in Our Broken Stories

Ellen:
[00:00:00] Welcome back to the Coffee and Bible Time podcast. I’m your host, Ellen, and I’m so glad that you’re here. Today’s guest is Nicole C. Mullen, a Dove Award–winning, Grammy-nominated singer-songwriter whose voice and message have touched millions of lives around the world. You probably know her from her unforgettable song, “Redeemer.”

[00:00:15] But what you may not know is that Nicole’s life has been shaped just as much by the valleys as the victories. Nicole is someone who has seen God redeem painful seasons, and she’s passionate about helping others believe that their past doesn’t disqualify them from God’s purpose. Nicole is here today to share about the biblical and historical heroes of the faith who shaped her, and how we too can live with boldness and conviction today. So grab your coffee, open your Bible, and let’s dive in. Nicole, welcome. We’re so glad that you’re here.

Nicole C. Mullen:
[00:00:45] Thank you, Ellen. Thank you for having me. I’m looking forward to our conversation.

Ellen:
[00:00:50] What a delight, truly. Well, Nicole, many people know you, of course, for your music, but you’re also a self-described Bible nerd. Where did your love for Scripture begin, and how does it shape your life and ministry today?

Nicole C. Mullen:
[00:01:05] Great question. First of all, again, thank you so much for having me. It’s an honor to be here. You know, my parents were deacons in the church, and I think they had us memorizing Scripture from the time I was probably around two. They had us quoting the books of the Bible, and we would go to my granddad’s church, and he’d give us a dollar every Sunday. But I believe that learning the Word of God started even earlier for me because my mom would teach me to memorize passages.

[00:01:25] And although I was a stutterer—still a fast talker—shy, and did not really enjoy the verbal communication of using words, I enjoyed singing. But to just speak? I didn’t really enjoy it. Yet the more I got into Scripture, the more I was able to memorize it, the more I received the power of the Holy Spirit to enable me to speak. I gained boldness and courage to be able to declare. I believe the Word of God taught me to speak—this is what I’m trying to say.

[00:01:45] I also fell in love with a lot of the characters that I came across. Christ, of course, is number one. He’s the apex—this should go without saying. He is the apex of all characters. He is God, He is Lord, He is Redeemer. But then He also allowed other flawed men and women to be put in Scripture that I could really identify with. Some of their stories made me laugh. Some made me cry. Some showed me the love of God in their lives. And because He said He was the same yesterday, today, and forever, I knew what He did is what He does. And so it stirred my quest to want to come and taste and see that the Lord is good.

[00:02:05] It created a desire for me to know more, to investigate more. By the time I was 17, I went to Bible school. I learned a lot in Bible school, but a lot of what I currently use is from my personal relationship with Christ—it’s from the Holy Spirit teaching me and leading me into His truth. And it’s from good men and women of the faith—some in the Scriptures, some in pulpits, some on podcasts. As long as they agree with the Word of God, He’s teaching me, and I want to be a student, not just a hearer but a doer. And that’s what I want to share with other people.

Ellen:
[00:02:55] Hmm. What an incredibly rich past you’ve had that’s been able to pour into you, and how God’s Word has been front and center. That’s such a huge blessing. Well, Nicole, your new book—It’s Never Wrong to Do the Right Thing—includes a wide range of the stories that you’re referencing, from Scripture to history to your own life.

[00:03:15] How did you go about choosing the specific stories you wanted people to be encouraged by?

Nicole C. Mullen:
[00:03:25] Wow, great question. Now, I did put a lot of my favorite heroes and sheroes in the book, but there are a whole lot more that I didn’t get a chance to include—that’s a whole other book. But many of these characters have affected me in my decisions—in the midst of relationships, sometimes after I’ve made a wrong decision, sometimes before. The Lord has given me wisdom through them.

[00:03:45] I’ve loved Abigail since I was a little girl—she’s been one of my favorites. And I found myself at around the age of 20 going through a season of domestic violence. Abigail became another one of my sheroes. I was able to glean her wisdom, her courage to run for help, to protect what she had and the people under her care, her quick thinking, and her intelligent decisions. Her godliness inspired me even in that.

[00:04:05] Other characters like Jochebed, who stood up for life and preserved life in the midst of a mandate that said she was to extinguish her son—she defied that command because she believed in God and in the principle that life is valuable.

[00:04:25] These are stories many of us have heard and some have not, but they contain principles we are to apply to our lives. Through her story, we see adoption, redemption, how God saved the life of her baby, and he became Moses—the Moses who led the children of Israel out of slavery and toward the Promised Land. The same Moses to whom God gave the Ten Commandments. The same Moses Jesus quoted. The same Moses who wrote a good portion of the Old Testament.

[00:04:45] Her one godly decision led to greatness and to millions of other good decisions she likely had no clue about in the moment.

[00:05:05] Hers is one of those stories that inspires me: in every season, I want to aim for right decisions and encourage others to do the same. Are there rewards on the other side of right decisions? I want to say yes—there are. And there are great men and women who have left us blueprints for how to walk through hard times wisely.

Ellen:
[00:05:35] Truly. The ones you just mentioned highlight their courage—how they faced danger and came out the other side through God’s grace. In your own story, Nicole, you share very transparently about a dangerous season in your own life. Would you be willing to share a little bit about that and how God led you through that time?

Nicole C. Mullen:
[00:05:55] Absolutely. You know, Ellen, I find that sometimes we are afraid to talk about what we’ve gone through. We’re never to glorify the night seasons, but we are to share them to show people the backdrop on which Christ allowed His light to shine even brighter.

[00:06:15] For me, part of that backdrop was when I was 17 and went to Bible school. I graduated, and when I was 20, I met this guy. I thought he was the right one—he said the right words, had the right Christian lingo. I wasn’t ready to get married, but because I had “stinking thinking” about how I thought God viewed certain situations, when he proposed to me—on the first date—and added the pressure of, “If you don’t, you’re going to miss God’s will and have to settle for second best,” I felt trapped.

[00:06:35] I wanted God’s will, and I thought, Well, he must know God better than I do. So I said, “Yes, but not now.”

[00:06:55] When I went to test that with someone more seasoned in the faith—my mom—I told her what he said and what I said. And she said, “No, that’s not God.” Instead of submitting to the truth, going back to the Word, and humbling myself, pride rose up in me. My pride said, I’ll prove to you I can hear God just as well as you. It wasn’t that I couldn’t have learned to hear God, but my pride was in the way, and I wasn’t seasoned in leaning into the chest of God to hear His heartbeat like my mom was.

[00:07:15] So I proceeded to say, “I do.” And for the next three years, Ellen, he beat me—physically, spiritually, and emotionally. He would often ask me a question that I pose in the book as well. He would yell, “Nicole, what is your purpose in life?” Then he would answer his own question: “That’s your problem. You have no purpose in life.”

[00:07:55] I was in a season where I was too afraid to utter a rebuttal out loud. But inside I was saying, I do have a purpose. I do have a purpose. I couldn’t articulate it, didn’t know exactly what it was, but I knew God had spoken over me around the age of 12 through a lady in our church named Sister Dottie. She wasn’t well educated, but if she said the Lord told her something, you could take it to the bank. She had been proven right so many times.

Nicole C. Mullen:
[00:08:25] Yeah. So anyway, part of what she came and said to me at the age of 12 was that the Lord said He was going to take me around the world singing for Him, and He would give me songs in the night. I didn’t understand exactly what it meant at the time. But fast forward—now I’m 20, 21, 22, 23—and he’s telling me I have no purpose. Well, I’m thinking back to, God, You gave me a word.

[00:08:45] I’m thinking back to how my dad prayed for me at the age of 12, that You would do great things in my life. I’m thinking back to the Scriptures that say You have a plan for me—to prosper me, not to harm me. I’m thinking back now to the verses in Romans 8 that He allowed me to memorize at the age of 17. It says in verse 28 that God will work all things together for my good—not that everything would be good, not that everything would be good in any of our lives,

[00:09:05] but that He would work it together for good if—and here’s the qualifier—we love Him and if we are the called according to His purpose. So if we love Him, I believe that puts us in the category of being the called according to His purpose. So in the midst of the abuse, in the midst of the accusation, I didn’t have to have my own purpose; I didn’t have to make one up. I loved Christ, therefore I was called according to His purpose,

[00:09:25] and He was going to work all those things together for my good. And eventually, fast forward, the Lord has done that. The Lord has worked even that night season—being battered and bruised and put down and wanting to die. I didn’t want to take my own life, but I prayed that God would take me. He took that hopelessness and began to use it. He used it like the dirt or the soil that a seed is planted in. The dirt and the soil and the manure don’t kill the seed—well, they do, but they don’t. They kill it in the sense that it’s no longer what it was, but they produce what it’s going to be.

[00:09:45] And He allowed that night season to begin to produce in me what He was going to grow me into. Before I knew it, He allowed me to sing. The Lord did. He allowed me to use even that night season as fuel,

[00:10:05] …as lyrics to be able to write from. He lives to take away my shame. He lives, forever I’ll proclaim, that the payment for my sin was the precious life He gave. And now He’s alive, and there’s an empty grave, and I know my Redeemer lives. So He allowed that heartache—and then another season of heartache—to begin to produce something good. And I know it’s not just for me, Ellen. I know I’m telling my story, but I’m also telling your story. I’m telling other people’s stories with different details and different scenarios.

[00:10:25] But we all know what it’s like to have heartache. We all know what it’s like to feel embarrassed or ashamed or to feel rejected. We all know those feelings. But in the midst of it, Christ is our champion, and He sings over us and He sings through us. And He reminds us that He’s able to take our broken pieces and make masterpieces out of them. And He’s able to buy back our heartache, our shame, our embarrassment, our failures, and turn them into victories.

[00:10:45] But I think the main part is not us stopping the night from happening. It’s: Who do we say Christ is in the day and in the night? And that’s a part of the book—It’s Never Wrong to Do the Right Thing—regardless of your season.

[00:11:05] Regardless of what you’re facing, regardless of your challenges, there is a right answer. And that right answer starts with a relationship with Christ. Then it continues with knowing what His Word says, and then for us to be obedient in acting that out.

Ellen:
[00:11:25] Such tremendous wisdom that you’ve just highlighted for us. And thank you so much for walking us through what maybe many people don’t realize. Because I think, Nicole, for example, when I knew we were going to have this interview, before I looked at anything, I just went to YouTube and pulled up this incredible video

[00:11:55] of you singing Redeemer. And I’m thinking to myself, “Wow, she’s so beautiful. Her life must be perfect.” You know what I mean? If you don’t know the story—especially in this social media age we live in where everything is about the outside—it’s easy to assume that. But I love how you’ve gone to the core of what inspired

[00:13:05] the song Redeemer, right? And you’ve also touched a little bit on some of the people who were inspiring to you. When you were going through this particular difficult chapter, who were some of the people that helped walk you through that part?

Nicole C. Mullen:
[00:13:25] Wow. When I was going through that chapter, there were a lot of good sister-girls that God allowed to walk beside me. They were the ones who would rescue me. They were the ones who would pick me up. I remember one time I had run away on foot to the hospital that was up the street from our apartment, and another one of my sister-girls came in the middle of the night, put her baby in the back seat, picked me up, and encouraged me not to go back.

[00:13:45] And of course, I would go back over and over again. But she reminded me of my value. She reminded me of what the Word said. And there were several like her. When the time finally came for me to escape that situation—that particular season—God gave me good sisters and brothers. Some had an extra mattress I could sleep on in their living room. Some had an extra couch. Some had an extra bedroom. Whatever they had, they offered.

[00:14:05] So I’m grateful for their help, their counsel, their encouragement, their shelter, and them speaking life over me. And I believe that’s not just my story. I believe the Lord provides that for all of us—regardless of what we’re going through—if we’re putting our trust and our hope in Him. At that point I thought, I have no one else, Lord. I only have You. My hope was in Him.

[00:14:25] And my hope was in Him, but now I was desperate. I didn’t have any other options. And God showed up. Not only did He bring me out of that season—where the night I finally left, I slept in my car—but now He’s provided me with a home with many rooms. And I’ve been able to let others stay with me when they needed a safe place. I’m grateful for that.

[00:14:45] He has been good. The Lord is my champion. And not only is He mine, but He is the champion of all who call upon Him, all who put their trust and faith in Him. He got me out of that one. But, Ellen, I have to say—and I think I write about this in the book—after He got me through that season, I had a chip on my shoulder. Because I was a quote-unquote “good girl.”

[00:15:05] I came from a stable family. My parents were married for 54 years. My grandparents were married 60-plus years. We grew up in the church. We didn’t have drama growing up. So I thought, “Well, I kept myself, and I’m a good girl, but God, You still let me suffer.”

Can I just say—we are all going to suffer something. That’s a promise in Scripture. Jesus said, In this world you will have tribulation. You’re going to have tribulation. But if you know Him—if you have Him—He said, Be of good cheer. Why? Because He has overcome. And because He has overcome, if we’re holding on to Him, we overcome as well.

But the tribulation is not going to stop. Suffering is a part of life.

[00:15:25] But in that moment, I had a chip on my shoulder because I thought I should have been exempt. It doesn’t work like that. So I made a secret vow: if I ever got into another relationship, I was going to do it my way. And when “Mr. My Way” presented himself, we began compromising. And that compromise led to an unplanned pregnancy.

[00:15:45] There we were. I loved Jesus. He said he loved Jesus. I was singing background for another band. And I’m thinking, Okay… so what do we do?
For a moment, I heard the same temptation millions of women have heard: Nobody will ever know.

[00:16:05] And I want to stop and say this—I know I’m speaking to a lot of women who may have gone through with something they now regret. I want to say: God will forgive whatever we repent of. I have no stones to throw. I need the same grace I extend to you. My decisions were different, but we’ve had different stories.

But in my season, God gave me the grace to say yes to life, and I took it. My boyfriend and I ended up getting married, and we gave birth to a daughter—who is now 31, thank you Jesus.

[00:16:25] But even then, things were not perfect. Because the foundation matters. And if we don’t go back and repent, things stay shaky. And I did repent. I said, “Lord, forgive me.” And by God’s grace, I can say He has kept me over these 30-plus years from those same types of sins. God is a keeper.

[00:16:45] You can make the right decision—but both people have to make the right decision. And that season also brought hardship. I experienced a lot of betrayal. I had to learn forgiveness all over again, for different reasons.

And the Lord took me through. Because in the midst of a broken heart is where He gave me Redeemer. It’s where He gave me On My Knees. It’s where He gave me When I Call on Jesus.

[00:17:05] My point in saying all of this is: it’s not always about stopping the rain. It’s not always about stopping the suffering. It’s about what God can produce in the midst of it. We don’t stop the dirt. We don’t stop the manure. Like I said earlier, it’s what is produced in it, from it, and through it that God gets glory from.

[00:17:25] Even in the midst of my heartache, He has been true to His word. Even in the midst of my mistakes—even in my willful sins. And I’m not sharing this just for me. I’m sharing it to give other people permission to be honest about theirs. To say, “This is where I need Christ to heal me. This is where I need Him to forgive me.”

Not to sweep it under the rug, but to bring it to the One who can do something about it—and that’s Jesus the Christ.

[00:17:45] And when we do that, then we can really worship Him—as the Scripture says—in spirit and in truth. And then He said everything else we need—whether finances, protection, love, whatever it is—He will provide. He will take care of it.

Ellen:
[00:18:05] And He has taken care of so much in your life. I read as part of that story that your daughter was born premature, right? So you had all of that to go through, and you described the experience of praying over her in the preemie unit, and it’s just so moving. As someone myself who—

Nicole C. Mullen:
[00:18:25] Yes.

Nicole C. Mullen:
[00:18:35] Yeah.

Ellen:
[00:18:45] —I was given up for adoption for that reason. My birth mother and father were in college, and it just wasn’t the right season for them to raise a baby. I’m glad that I was born. But like you said, God has been so faithful in my life from the beginning. So no matter which side of the story you’re on—

Nicole C. Mullen:
[00:19:05] Wow. Mmm.

Nicole C. Mullen:
[00:19:25] Absolutely. And I touch on that in the book too—the adoption scenario—because life is valuable. I applaud every woman who has decided, “I will carry this child. I may not be able to raise this child myself, but I will place them in the arms of someone who can.”

And my oldest son, Maxwell, was given to me through adoption.

Nicole C. Mullen:
[00:19:55] My grandparents adopted children. They fostered. My parents were foster parents, and they adopted children as well. So for me, it was just a natural expression of love. At the same time, it created an ultimate respect for the moms who love their babies enough to carry them and say, “I may not be able to carry you through the last leg of this race, but I’m going to pass the baton to someone else who can. And I’m going to pray they love you well.”

So I honor every mom who has done that, and every mom who has opened her arms to receive a child as well.

Ellen:
[00:20:35] Yeah.

Ellen:
[00:20:45] Yes. Well, one really powerful story that you included was that of Elizabeth Freeman. In your opening for that, you said a lot of people haven’t heard of her—and I hadn’t either. I loved reading that story. Tell us, for our listeners, just a little bit about her and how her faith and courage impacted you. You were also able to portray her, so it’s—

Nicole C. Mullen:
[00:21:05] Yeah.

Nicole C. Mullen:
[00:21:15] Yes.

Ellen:
[00:21:25] —it’s within now. Tell us about that.

Nicole C. Mullen:
[00:21:35] Yes. You know, first of all, I was super honored when they asked me to play her character in the movie The American Miracle. They were highlighting what happened for the independence of the United States and how our country is no accident. There was a character added—someone from history that we’d never really heard of: Elizabeth Freeman.

She was a slave in Massachusetts and had heard about the Sheffield Resolves, which declared that all men are created equal. Some of the same men influenced the Declaration of Independence in 1776. So she heard it three times: through the Resolves, the Declaration, and the Massachusetts Constitution. She couldn’t read, but she could retain it.

Eventually, after an altercation, she went to a lawyer—a friend of her master who had helped craft the Sheffield Resolves—and asked, essentially, “Am I all mankind? Should I not be free?” The lawyer had compassion and agreed. He took her case, added a male slave as a legal requirement, and brought it before a white judge and jury. In 1781, they ruled for the freedom of a Black slave—something largely unknown and never taught in schools.

From that, I learned that some freedoms and victories are already paid for, but unless we ask and take action, they won’t be ours. Elizabeth said something powerful: even if freedom had been offered for only one minute, she would have taken it to stand on God’s earth as a free woman.

There are freedoms in Christ already paid for—freedom from bondage, depression, anxiety, oppression—but unless we believe by faith, seek, and act, we may not experience them. Elizabeth’s courage reminds us that it’s never wrong to do the right thing: to stand up, ask, and claim what God has for us. Her example is for all of us.

Ellen:
[00:25:25] Absolutely. That freedom—that freedom is a prayer God wants to answer if you’re seeking it. How I love that.

Ellen:
[00:25:35] Nicole, thank you so much. Where can our listeners go to learn more about you and your new book, It’s Never Wrong to Do the Right Thing?

Nicole C. Mullen:
[00:25:45] Fantastic. You can always go to my website, NicoleCMullen.com. There, you can find information about having me speak, learn what I’m doing, and find a link to get the book. You can also get the book on Amazon, Barnes & Noble, or wherever books are sold. There’s a Kindle edition and an Audible version, where I read the book myself. I’d love for you to experience it in my voice alongside the hard copy.

Ellen:
[00:26:25] Fantastic. We’ll include all those links in our show notes. Before I let you go, our favorite questions here at Coffee and Bible Time: What Bible is your go-to, and what translation?

Nicole C. Mullen:
[00:26:45] I enjoy the NIV, particularly the 1984 edition—it’s my favorite. I also like the Tree of Life version, and I have others as well.

Ellen:
[00:27:05] Great translations. Do you have any favorite Bible journaling supplies?

Nicole C. Mullen:
[00:27:25] I have a couple of Bible journals. As for apps, I use Logos a lot—it’s phenomenal for study notes, investigating words and phrases, and seeing what Scripture said before translation.

Ellen:
[00:27:45] Ours too! Logos is hands-down amazing. We’ll link it in the show notes. Nicole, thank you so much for sharing from your heart today.

Nicole C. Mullen:
[00:28:45] Thank you for having me.

Ellen:
[00:28:55] And to our listeners: We hope you leave this conversation encouraged to walk boldly, trust God’s timing, and believe it’s never too late for redemption. We’ll see you next time on Coffee and Bible Time. Until then, may you walk in His grace and truth. Have a blessed day.